What Happens When You Cross MY Boundaries...

A challenging exploration of boundary-setting and personal conflict unfolds through gripping stories that reveal the complexities of human interaction. The episode highlights the escalation of confrontations and emphasizes the importance of repairing relationships after boundaries are crossed. 

• Discusses the need for boundaries in social interactions 
• Shares personal stories of boundary violations 
• Explores the emotional triggers associated with crossing boundaries 
• Highlights the process of escalation and immediate de-escalation 
• Stresses the importance of repair after conflict 
• Introduces the concept of “radical flanking” in social movements 
• Encourages listeners to reflect on their own boundary-setting experiences

Chapters

• 0:34 Boundaries, Radical Flanking, and Social Change
• 12:24 Setting Boundaries and Repairing Relationships
• 25:08 Navigating Trauma and Boundaries

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:34

Thank you, hey everybody, and welcome back to another episode of the Speak Plainly podcast, where we speak plainly about things that matter. I'm your host, owl Medicine, and today I want to thank everybody for your listens on Luigi and for your engagement. I have had so many people reach out to me and comment to me and send me private messages appreciating my perspective on Luigi and, specifically, they're appreciating my perspective on Malcolm X and MLK and Luigi. This is a thing I'm going to save for the next episode because I really want to make sure I've got my research correct on what's called radical flanking. What I was talking about last episode with Luigi turns out there is an entire sociological phenomenon that is fairly well understood and researched. That is called radical flanking, and it is exactly what we were talking about, or what I was talking about with Luigi, and next episode we're going to get into that. We're going to break down the sociology of past events in the 80s, with animal rights and hippies jumping on whale boats, to civil rights and with Malcolm X and MLK all the way up to modern day, luigi, and how these radical flanking groups they wind up actually like shifting the needle as to what we believe is moderate, and I think that's a phenomenal concept and I think that's the piece that a lot of people are missing then this is a good way for you to zoom out and really take a look at the implications, through history, of radicalized groups and the effect that it had on social change, because usually these radical flanking groups are a part of social change change and those social change we call social movements and those movements are very rarely monolithic, meaning there's very rarely only one group inside a movement that encompasses the entire movement. You have civil rights, but then you have everything from Black Panthers to Black Lives Matter. These are what I'm talking about with different factions. So join me next episode for a really in-depth, fun conversation about the sociology and the history of radical flanking in the United States, in the United States, in social movements. This episode, what I wanted to talk about movements. This episode what I wanted to talk about because we all just went through Christmas and New Year's.

Speaker 1: 3:30

I had multiple situations in the last two months where I had to put up a boundary in public with people that I care about and care about me, and I did it what some might call to the extreme, and that's what I want to talk about today. I would like to talk about what happens when you cross our medicine's boundaries in a public place. How does that shape out? And, to be frank, it's not nice. It's not nice at all, but it wasn't nice for you to cross my boundary, and I have a habit of escalating quickly and de-escalating quickly. I think that's the best way to get through this.

Speaker 1: 4:15

But I'm going to talk about a couple of scenarios with some friends that I will leave their names out because they're awesome and I think they'll both actually like, appreciate this. So I'll start with one where both of these are friendly acquaintances of mine that read my book and love my music and come to shows and I've known for a little while a year or two, right, not super long, anything like that. We don't spend any time hanging out with each other outside of when we see each other in public things and whatnot, but we always love seeing each other and it's always really nice. It's a wonderful reunion with all of these people. So I give you that to give you an understanding of what the relationship is. These are not 10-year long-term besties or anything like that One to two years of knowing each other and we know each other through public spaces and through my work as an author and a coach and educator and podcast host.

Speaker 1: 5:24

So this one person I met when I first came out here to the Olympic Peninsula and started going to open mic night and they are awesome a wonderful human being who's been through hell and back and is doing everything they can to get on top of their trauma and their conditioning and all their crap and live a really good life where they're trying to make the world a better place for themselves and for those around them. They're really good people. But this person I hadn't seen in ages, we hadn't talked in ages and ages and ages. And we were out in a public space at a restaurant show thing. We were all out seeing music and I ran into her and it was really cool, but she kept bringing up that I didn't see or that I didn't respond to her messages, that she sent me some messages on Facebook and I didn't respond and I laughed that off. I'm like, okay, ha ha ha, oh well, whatever, not a big deal. But then she did it again and the first time she brought it up it was super, just jokingly ha ha, chide, chide, funny, funny. And the second time a little less so and the third time even less so, and by the fourth time that it happened it was still chiding and funny. It wasn't at all meant to be an attack or anything, but it became very clear to me that this actually bothered her. It wasn't a I'm just making a joke because it's an opportunity here, it's an opportunity, and I'm making a joke because I'm actually.

Speaker 1: 6:56

I was really bothered by this and that became clear to me because this was brought up four times in front of four separate groups that I didn't respond to a Facebook or a series of Facebook messages. And I don't feel bad about that. I don't feel bad about not getting back to my like, getting back to my messages, not according to my own like, morality and value system. Anyway, occasionally I do. I'll feel bad, but then I'll catch that and be like no, no, do not do that to yourself, do not allow yourself to do that, because I used to get really tied up in knots about that and missing people's messages and somebody being mad at me and all that crap and fuck that. I'm not doing any of that anymore and it's been a while since I've done that so like with any kind of vigor anyway.

Speaker 1: 7:43

So she brought it up a fourth time and this is where I went in. I went in and was like what are you even talking about? Seriously, what are you talking about? Bring it up, bring up the messages. I don't know what you're talking about. Were these Facebook messages? Were they Instagram messages? Do you have my number? Did you text me? I don't understand what's happening or why you're bringing this up so much.

Speaker 1: 8:08

And she brought up the messages there at the restaurant, like with the music and everything. And we're sitting at a table of friends, a table of mutual friends, people who know me and they know her. They might know me better or like more than her because she's been really busy and has been working a ton and that sort of thing. So, anyway, mutual friends there at the table and I went in and I had her pull up the messages and she said she sent a series of messages. I saw that she sent three messages in series. The first two were single words and the third was just a little short paragraph. First two were single words and the third was just a little short paragraph and it wasn't actually a message that deemed much of a response at all. There wasn't a hey, do you want to like? Like, let's go hang out on this day? There was nothing like that. So when I saw that, I was like, why? Why would I respond to this? Why would I respond to this? You like, even if I, even if I saw it and felt like I should respond to it, what am I even going to say to this? Not to mention, it's not a series of messages, it's not a series of messages that I continued to ignore. And what got me, what started me down this was she brought it up four times in front of four groups of people.

Speaker 1: 9:26

And there's a thing about me that you need to understand. I understand the world that I live in and I understand that for me, the world I live in, the less money you have, the more your reputation is worth, and for me, my reputation is absolutely everything. It is everything. I work so hard to be able to move through the world in a way that gives grace to every person that I interact with, and that's why I don't go out past 10 o'clock at night unless I'm being paid for it. I mean, I don't go out past seven or eight period. You cannot get me out of the house unless there's a music thing and I've already been agreed to do it and blah, blah, blah, or you're paying me, I'm not going out of the house that late, and this is now 11-ish or something like that, like 10 or 11 at night. And I know me. I know that my willpower dwindles and the graciousness that I try to move through the world with gets less and less and less the later it gets, the later it gets, the more my conditioning of my trauma comes out and there's less of my like good decision-making, prefrontal cortex to hold things back.

Speaker 1: 10:46

And when she brought it up a fourth time, somebody else at the table was like oh, so you're just like ignoring messages now from people in a totally joking way. And that's when I was like nope, this is affecting my reputation. We're going to have this conversation four times now. She brought it up so I went off like I didn't scream. I was very firm and plenty loud enough for her to hear, because we're in a restaurant that's loud and there's live music going. So I had to speak loud enough for her to hear me and I'm sure I'm positive because I've met my mother and I know that when I, when I do one of these correction things. It's very similar to the way that she did. It's intense, it's very intense, and so I said this is ridiculous.

Speaker 1: 11:36

Don't like bring me out, like, call me out like this, for ignoring a whole bunch of messages when it's literally one message. You sent two words twice and then one actual message, and now you're going around acting like I've been ignoring you and that's not okay. If you want to hang out with me because that's what she said the messages were if you want to hang out with me, send me another message. If you send me a message and I don't answer and you want to hang out, send another message. Like, send me another one. I'm not going to get mad because you sent me multiple messages. I'll apologize that I missed the first couple and we can pick up right there. It's not a big deal, but you have to actually send me the messages and you definitely don't get to send me one message and then bad mouth me in front of everybody, which I get is not what she was trying to do, not even close.

Speaker 1: 12:24

She loves me and I feel the same way about her. She's a wonderful person, but in this scenario, she was thinking about her hurt feelings or not thinking about them. But that's what was coming out. Was this poking she like this poking of the bear, knowing that she was poking this because this thing bothered her? She was stuck on the fact that that bothered her and didn't consider the implications of what she was doing to me. And that's why I feel very justified in my response, because my response was measured, it was intense and I flip on a dime I do, and watch out for it.

Speaker 1: 13:03

Come at me at 9, 10, 11 o'clock at night, try it. Come at me at 9, 10, 11 o'clock at night. You're not going to get the nice trauma informed like uber patient, gracious owl, you're just fucking not. Don't do it. Don't come at me sideways late at night because you're not going to, you're not going to enjoy what you get. And I can say that and own that and not feel bad about it, even as a trauma author and educator. And all of this because what I did is I immediately went. This behavior needs to stop. We're going to address the actual issue which you say. Are these messages that, like that's the issue, because that's what bothered you, and now you bringing that up in the way that you brought it up over and over and over again, in front of multiple groups of people in a very small town, to a person whose entire livelihood is predicated on and balanced on their reputation. She didn't consider any of that, but I did and that's why I was very firm and the table.

Speaker 1: 14:11

I see how intense I am. I don't normally see it, but I do see it when this happens in public places and I'm talking to this person and I see the eyes of the people around me and I see how stiff everybody gets and I see how like they're like oh shit, and yeah, don't piss off Owl, don't fuck with Owl, just don't do it. It's not a good idea. Just don't fuck with me. Not late at night. I'll be like we can do jokes and stuff all day, but once the sun goes down, my willpower to be a good person in the world really dwindles. I still want to be that. It's there in my core. My value system still wants me to be a good person, but I don't have the chi to do such.

Speaker 1: 14:57

So I escalate quickly and then I de-escalate quickly. So I escalated very quickly and I let show how upset I was. I don't think there's a problem with that. I think that's what is that you ought to do. You ought to let show how upset you are. That doesn't mean you need to like punch people or break things or like be ridiculous or over the top, but the whole point is to let people know that they crossed a boundary. And you know a person crossed a boundary when it hurts. So putting that hurt on display one way or another, so long as it's not injuring the other person, yeah, I think that's fine, I think that's, I think that's great. I think that's just as good as, like trying to do the political thing and pretend to not be hurt and say everything in the most calm, whatever way.

Speaker 1: 15:52

But I escalate quickly and then I de-escalated quickly. Then I went into like you're fine, we're fine, I want you to send me another message. Send me a message so we can hang out. If you want to go get coffee, I'd love to do that. If you want to like sit around and have lunch and have a conversation, I'd love to do that. It's been a long time since I've seen you. That would be great. But send me another message and don't send me one message and then get all weird and then like do this crap in public, not in a small town crap in public, not in a small town, at live music with a bunch of musicians, when that's like my whole focus right now. But again, not what she was thinking about. And it was what I was thinking about and so that was my attempting of repair.

Speaker 1: 16:39

That's what I mean by I escalate quickly and say, whoop, you crossed a boundary, and I make it very clear that you crossed a boundary, and then I de-. I escalate quickly and say, whoop, you crossed a boundary, and I make it very clear that you crossed a boundary, and then I de-escalate quickly and I say all of the things and I de-escalate quickly. When I say that, what I mean is I say like you're okay, we're okay, our relationship is fine. I do want to pick up where we left off. I know that we're both in a dysregulated state right now and I can say these things and I do very often say these things, feeling quite dysregulated. And when I say I de-escalate quickly, that doesn't mean that my body is back to a parasympathetic, chilled out state, not even close.

Speaker 1: 17:22

But I have done this and had to do it enough that I am good now at popping up with a boundary and saying, uh-uh, you crossed my boundary and doing it in a way that makes sure that you're not going to cross my boundary again. And then I immediately try to repair that and say you crossed a boundary. I made sure that you understood that that's not okay. And now I want you to understand that we're still okay. You can cross my boundary and I can say, uh-uh, bitch, I don't fucking think so and we can still be okay. That's what happens, that's life, that's friends, that's the world. I don't care how hard you try, something can always and will always go wrong. So the reparation is super important for me. And I did that immediately. And she even said she was like yeah, no, we're good, I'm probably gonna cry, but not here. And I was like that's probably a good call because we're like in public and I get that. And I was like but send me another message and we'll be like, we'll be good. And that was. That was instance number one.

Speaker 1: 18:28

So to recap what happened again, this friend of mine, this acquaintance of mine I hadn't seen in a long time, brought all this, brought this thing up. That was bothering her, that, especially once we pulled all the evidence up, I was like are you fucking kidding me? And that's what. That's probably what made her feel like I was being abusive. And she said those words to a mutual friend, not like shit talking or anything like that. She reached out to some mutual friends to be like, look, I love this person and you love this person, and I feel like his response was abusive and I want to know what's going on, because I know you believe he's a good person, I believe he's a good person, but I believe that this was abusive. And my response to that was I totally get that.

Speaker 1: 19:17

I get why she believes that it was abusive and because abusive and one of the ways to describe it, I think is to be is to it's a retaliation that is over, overly zealous. Right, it is not a measured response to the slight that had been that had happened. But the thing is she didn't think about the implications of her slight against me. She didn't think about the implications of bad-mouthing a person whose entire life and this was the best year of my life 2024 was, hands down, the dopest year of my life and it was built on my hard work and my reputation. That's it. That's the only thing that brought me this success that I have, and she was bad-mouthing it in front of everybody and other people that don't know me or people that don't know her. I don't know how they're going to interpret that, but I do know how at least one person who does know me interpreted that, because he said something in real time and that's what caused me to go uh-uh. We're dealing with this now.

Speaker 1: 20:21

I believe that we need to be able to put up a boundary and then repair immediately, very quickly, and then move on. I know everybody's different. I do have that ability as a Sagittarius person to. I can flip on a dime like that and my body might not be fully, like, re-regulated, but it's on its way. There's something in me that I can like flip that switch and be like okay, I've come to a place where I can let that go and now begins the very slow, thanks to my trauma, conditioning, ramping down process. But if you just went through Christmas, new Year's, whatever, with your family and somebody pissed you off, I hope that you were able to put up a boundary, and this is my formula. This is my formula for putting up a boundary, and I'll prove that by sharing one more story.

Speaker 1: 21:14

Another situation, just a few weeks later, again late at night, talking to a friend who I know basically the same way through music and trauma, who read my book and is super awesome and tons of fun and love her to death. But we were talking, she said something to me, I responded and she took the first half of my sentence and started responding to it and I started laughing because it was a big public thing. There's lots of loud music, so it was obvious like she just didn't hear the second half of my sentence. So I was laughing and was like leaned forward and was like you clearly didn't hear the second half of my sentence. Ha, ha, ha, ha ha. As she reaches up and puts her hand on my mouth. No, so immediately that's a boundary crossed.

Speaker 1: 22:06

Not only is the did you like physically touch me in a way to like in a way that was not consensual and not respectful, also being hushed in general is a ridiculous trigger of mine, coming from a from a factory worker family in the Midwest, where music, where I have all my trauma around music and stuff, so much of it was just about my mother being exhausted and probably being ADHD or slightly autistic or something and having some sensory processing things and having worked in a factory all damn day. It's just super loud and she just finished 12 hours or whatever, sometimes even more. 10 or 12 hours was her average working day when I was growing up, so she couldn't stand sound in a lot of cases. So I still have a lot of trauma over being hushed and I think I've shared a story with an ex where I flattened our TV my TV that I bought because he hushed me over a commercial. But so not only did she physically cross a boundary, then I was triggered because of the whole hushing thing.

Speaker 1: 23:11

This person is half my size, by the way. I'm six foot tall. I'm a six foot 150, 155 pound man. I'm 160 if I'm feeling strong, and this person is like five foot four or something. Five, five. She's probably five, five, five, six, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 23:29

She's a small lady and I grabbed her wrist and I extended my arm down and locked my elbow out and I leaned forward until I pulled her entire shoulder down just a little bit so I knew I had the attention of her entire physical body and I got probably four inches from her face and I said you will never, ever do that again. Do you understand me? You will never fucking touch me like that again, ever, ever, am I clear? And she locked and then went, yep, yeah, sorry, I'm sorry, yes. And I said, good, never fucking touch me like that again, ever, ever. And then I hear, well, that escalated quickly.

Speaker 1: 24:29

To my right is a mutual friend. He said, well, that escalated quickly. To my right is a mutual friend. He said, well, that escalated quickly. And I said, yeah, it did. That's what I do I escalate quickly and then I de-escalate quickly, because I also immediately went with her You're fine, we're fine, we're good, we're still friends. But you know to never, ever fucking touch me like that, ever again. And she was like yep, yep, we're good, and she's, she's a bit like me in this way of like, okay, cool, I can check that, and now we're good.

Speaker 1: 25:08

And so then we stood there for half a second and had my arm around her and we're like, we're good, there's still tension, my body's still dysregulated, whatever, and hers clearly was too, because I was still shaking and a little upset. We're like, we're all good, I'm still shaking and a little upset, but I put up my boundary and then I made sure that she knew that we were okay boundary, and then I made sure that she knew that we were okay and I'm like, and I knew that we were okay and all of that sort of thing, because I don't deal well with with turbulence in my interpersonal relationships not the ones I really truly care about so I walk away. I'm cause I'm doing some videography and stuff at this point. So I go to handle my camera and the lighting and all the videography stuff and about 30 minutes later I see her from three quarters across the way and I see her and I knew that she was making a beeline for me and she did, made a beeline straight for me and just wrapped her arms around me.

Speaker 1: 26:01

30 minutes later and I just wrapped my arms back around her and put my head on her or put my chin on her head and was like you all right, and she was like I am, and she just held me just like right there, didn't like pull back to look at me, anything not at first she was like I am, I'm good. And then she did pull back to look at me in the eyes and say thank you, thank you, and I said you're welcome. It felt weird to say you're welcome in that, but I did. I was like you're welcome, but you're good, we're good, you know that right. And she was like, yeah, I'm like good Because you really crossed a boundary for me and it triggered me. It triggered me good. And she was like, I know, and I'm sorry, and this is me triggered.

Speaker 1: 26:57

My trauma is when people are mad at me and, oh my God, that nearly broke me Any hostility that was still lingering in my body Because, like, conceptually, we are 100% good. Good because that happens and she didn't mean anything by it and I get all that. I wasn't taking it personally, but I was triggered and that is about two boundaries that were crossed for me, two triggers of mine. And when she said that, the rest of that dysregulation that was in my body over the situation just melted and I felt bad, not for what I did, but I felt bad for her, because then she said because when people are mad at me, they talk about you behind your back, they talk shit to you about your friends, they ruin your career, and I was like fuck. And she said a few other things, but they were a bit more personal and they were clearly stories from her life, things that people had done to her when they were mad at her, things that nobody should fucking do, and her friends did it, when they were mad and said that things were okay but weren't okay.

Speaker 1: 28:22

And this is why I do what I do the way that I do it, because those are the people I care about, these two people. They are two of the multitude that I'm trying to help. They are in that same situation. They have been through hell and back and they're trying to do better, to do better, and I want to set a positive, real example of what it's like in real time, as a traumatized person, to be able to put up a boundary, repair that and repair the relationship and make sure that you understand you crossed a boundary. That's not okay. We're still good, even though you crossed my boundary, and I made it very clear you will never cross that boundary again. We're still good, because I think that's what ought to happen. We ought to expect people to cross our boundaries, not on purpose, but on occasion, and it's our job to be able to respond to that and say you crossed a boundary. That is not okay. I don't want you to cross this boundary again, and that we all be okay with that. And when people's boundaries get crossed, we never know how they're going to respond. It's usually not good and it's usually not insightful enough to be able to do all of those things all at once, but this is the goal and I wanted to share it because it's not pretty. It's not. It's not pretty.

Speaker 1: 29:56

These two scenarios I was very uncomfortable for a little while. Especially the first one. I was quite uncomfortable. I actually had a sit down conversation with a couple of friends the friends that she called. Conversation with a couple of friends the friends that she called weeks later, weeks later, because it bothered her so much and it bothered me too. And I said to these friends that I was talking with I was like you know, and the shittiest part is like I get why she sees that as abusive. I don't agree and I'm okay with her seeing me as abusive in this situation because I think that's okay. I can't control how other people see me. All I can control is my where I'm coming from and trying to do things the best I possibly can. And the reality is, when you're a traumatized person trying to have boundaries, it's a messy process and I think I did this pretty well and it was still that messy.

Speaker 1: 30:58

I really do think I handled both of these really effing well. I don't see any problem with how I handled it. I do see problems in the situation, but those are situational problems. There's nobody to blame except the situation itself. That's life. You haven't seen somebody in a long time. You go to interact with something bothering you and you just poke at him and you like, chide him and give him a little bit of a hard time because you're friendly and you have that kind of relationship. But you wind up stepping on a toe, you wind up triggering somebody and you might not know what you're poking. You really just might not know what you're poking.

Speaker 1: 31:36

And especially, I think, for me as a trauma author, people read my book and think that they know me and they do know me better than I know them at least. But because of that there is a familiarity that comes with that and I think some of that familiarity was a variable that leaned the whole situation of them toward crossing a boundary with me, because they thought there was more to the relationship than there was. And I think that people think I am more evolved than I am. People think that I'm more put together than I am. I try to be very honest about being a totally amazing, hot, fucking mess. I try to be honest about being a totally amazing, hot, fucking mess. I try to be honest about that.

Speaker 1: 32:35

But I tell people like there's this guy I've probably talked about him on here a thousand times that I'm super in love with. I love him with all of my heart. He's just the most wonderful person in the world to me and people compare he and I all of the time and we are so similar. We are like genuinely painfully similar and it's it's hysterical. But the fundamental difference between he and I is that at his core he's a really, really good person and at my core I'm a traumatized, jaded, judgy little cunt who really, really, really, really, really, really, really wants to be a good person, and I mean that's why I'm so in love with him. He just is. He just is the best man I've ever met.

Speaker 1: 33:26

I think that's part of why these things happened. I think that's part of why these things happened. People see me and they see me as my friend because he is my best friend out here, and they see the two of us and how similar we are and they see my book and my trauma and they see how I move through the world during daylight, doubt and blah, blah, blah. But that is not the baseline operating and I need people to understand that and it's not for any of us traumatized people Us traumatized people. We need to understand that our baseline operating system is judgy, cunty, petty, reactive, it's all those things, and I'm fine with that. Like I said, come at me at 10, 11 o'clock at night, see how well that works out for you, and I'm okay with that too. I'm okay with coming, like, come at me, because I'm a whole ass person. That's really important for me. I'm a whole ass person. I don't want to be just a good person, I want to be a whole person, which means having to be quote bad in somebody's eyes every once in a while.

Speaker 1: 34:32

But before I drone on anymore, I wanted to give y'all some real world scenarios of hey, this is what it's like for a person who has lots and lots of trauma, who has worked through lots and lots of their trauma and continues to try to live above those conditionings what happens when you cross their boundaries. So this is kind of my post-holidays New Year message to those of you who might still be feeling bad about a way that you put up a boundary over the holidays with your auntie or your little cousin or your sister or whatever, your racist uncle or your liberal uncle or whatever the fuck. If you put up a boundary and you're not super okay with the way that it went, I'm sorry and maybe you could have done better. Probably I probably could have too. But also take some time to think about the situation itself. And when the situation itself is not congruous, when the situation itself has an inherent tension, we want to dissuade that tension by ascribing blame, and we typically blame people. It's either my fault or their fault, but in all of these scenarios it wasn't the fault of me or of my friends. It was the situation. Traumatized people, talking to traumatized people after working long hours and not having days off or and being in loud places, and that's just the way it goes. The situation was, boundaries were crossed. That's inherently an uncomfortable situation. Don't try to put move that discomfort onto you or onto them. Put move that discomfort onto you or onto them. Maybe also consider that there is inherent discomfort in setting a boundary and that's the way that it goes. Sure, try to do better next time, but maybe it was good enough.

Speaker 1: 36:45

Thank you so much for hanging out with me. I hope that you enjoyed this Again. Stick around the next episode, which will be coming out sooner than it normally does. I normally put one out about every two weeks now, but I really I've been doing some research and I just I hadn't found quite enough body to make a solid argument yet. So I've got all of the studies now and I'm most of the way through most of them. I'm all the way through many of them, but I've got a little bit more research to do on radical flanking and then we'll come back next episode and we'll talk about radical flanking, radical Flanking in Sociology. Luigi, our internet's new favorite CEO, alleged killer, and I will see you soon. Thanks for hanging out with me. Leave me a comment, leave me a message and remember, stay curious and stay uncomfortable, we'll be right back. So you, you.